Forum:A Note on Art
I would like to take the time here to explain what I've noticed with recent image uploads. I am beginning to see no credit for the artist, nor an explanation for the image. Every image that comes from an artist's fingers is copyrighted (I'm talking original drawings/paintings, not photomanips and such, though I know it's complex!) and deserves a credit either in the image title or in the description. This is relevant even if it's released under the most lenient of copyrights, ie Creative Commons. It's not bad to have art on the ER Wikia; it's terrific, actually. Perhaps some artists don't mind having their pieces put up and request it to be done. However, putting up art of theirs without permission is...well, rude. Putting up an image without a credit on top of this is even worse. Please understand I am NOT trying to bag on those who contribute so much to this wiki! I suggest, however, making sure permission is granted to use images in our collection -- unless it's obvious, of course -- and making a clear credit to the artist ON the image/image page. IMO, this isn't contrary to the foundations of the wiki system. But if the artist actually says "No," that should be honored, and the copyright isn't compatible with a wiki, I suppose. Credits have been given in the past, and art has been taken down at artist request. I sincerely want to support this, although I know it can be frustrating. It has to be maintained in good faith. Thanks, --Naiama :I'm certainly guilty of two things: putting up screenshots or WoW ModelViewer (which I have no idea what I'm supposed to put for copyright info) and taking an image someone has posted with an external link into a biobox - which doesn't work. See Zaer's page before (see the revisions of Zaer) I uploaded that linked image and then after. The user hasn't made a page with contact info and I don't know if they'll read the discussion section. :So, I'm not sure what to do there. Delete the non-working image and hope they read the discussion page? I'm certainly open to suggestions. The only other art that I've uploaded was art that was posted on the ER forums, and that was the admin's decision, believing that art posted there, if properly credited, was ok to put here. :I'm open to input on how to handle this! --Tai 01:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC) ::I agree that it's polite to give proper credit to artists as sources of images used in any Wiki. However, given that the ultimate holder of copyright of the images used here would likely be considered Blizzard, every credit line on a piece of art would probably need to go something like Stamp Stands in Booty Bay, an image created by Name of Assumed Persona Here using WoW Model Viewer and PhotoShop to represent a character of the Tauren race from the MMORPG World of Warcraft, which is property of Blizzard Entertainment, a subsidiary of Vivendi Universal. That's a mouthful, and may seem over the top, but if we're really going to push for fairness in credit, it may be a necessary thing. ::What's cool, though, is that even if we don't try to squeeze all that into the bio box on a character page, the image itself comes in a page of its own - and full credit can and should be given there. A lot of art in the ER Wiki already falls under categories according to the artists who created them. If any aren't being properly credited, please bring them to our attention and list them here - or help get them documented with the right credits. --Stamp 02:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC) ::: There are distinctions to what pieces of art I was referring to - mainly drawn/sketched/painted/anything by hand that isn't formed from polygons :P. In those cases, I don't think it's necessary to credit Blizzard unless they hold copyright to the character portrayed. Say, for example, Arthas vs. Stamp. Did Blizzard make Stamp? Nah, and I think it's safe to say people assume "tauren" belongs to Blizzard without having it noted in every hand-drawn image of Stamp. As for a picture of Arthas, the character was clearly created by Blizzard. ::: To sum up that last paragraph, I care more about the artists than a corporation. I disagree that the type of images I mentioned are ultimately copyrighted by Blizzard. ::: Okay, examples: :: #This was partly made with WoWModelView. Is it necessary to mark eeeeevery single rendered image? I'm not so sure about that. It's not like people didn't work on these images, but they are composited with Blizzard-made models. I don't feel comfortable, in my case, claiming that this composite belongs to me and no one can touch it, bla bla bla. #This was hand drawn (with a mouse or pen). Even if the artist uploaded it him/herself, it deserves a credit. Maybe I'm trying to reach out toward the difference between fine art and screenshots/composites for page enhancement. :And come to think of it, I'm not blameless! There are some images I have here that could probably use a better note or something. :--Naiama 05:41, 2 June 2007 (UTC) :::If you check the TOS carefully, I'm pretty sure it states that everything - even my character - ultimately belongs to Blizzard. A hand-rendered representation might not need full-blown Blizz-crediting, but if it's a screenshot that uses the Tauren model that a Blizz artist made, Blizz holds the rights to it on a fundamental level. (Not that I expect them to enforce this right a lot - they do encourage fan fiction and art, after all.) :::I have to say clearly that I don't disagree with your concerns about credit. I think we're generally on the same page about that. Ultimately, I think it's better to err on the side of caution, particularly on the image pages themselves. ::::--Stamp 05:56, 2 June 2007 (UTC) ::::I'm pretty sure that as long as you admit it's a screenshot and don't try and make money with it, it's fair use to take/draw whatever pictures you like. I don't plan on adding three lines of text to all my screenshots, I think that just saying that they are screenshots is clear enough. Long and involuted credits just encourage more of the same, so I'd rather not use them unnecessarily. Also, Blizzard is pretty well-known for encouraging mashups, model-viewers, FRAPS-movies, etc, as long as you credit them. Similarly, the company seems to encourage people to feel like they 'own' their characters - writing stories about them and whatnot - but you'd never be able to sell a book about your character because Blizzard holds copyright on the world setting, and things like the races and places. Oh, and if they wanted to make Stamp Brand Cookies, they could. :D ::::So... yup. Credit where credit is due, but I'd worry most about getting proper acknowledgement to the artists who draw or make things, and not worry too much about Bliz. I somehow doubt they'd be upset with our many lovely screenshots, even without uber-detailed attributions. :::::--Krelle 15:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC) ::::::I'd agree about the screenshots. The site clearly explains on the Main Page that this is WoW-based, so I'm not inclined to worry about those. What are thoughts about use of WoW Model Viewer images? Is there a standard folks have for WoW Model Viewer images? ::::::Also, a more pressing issue (personally) is that in trying to be helpful to folks who have made pages, I have uploaded an image they had externally linked to the page (usually the Biobox) where the externally linked image doesn't format properly. The Biobox chews up and spits out externally linked images! See Zaer's page as an example. In those cases, the page author wanted those images there, but I can't be sure they're ok with those images being uploaded here. What should policy be? Leave the poorly formatted images alone and leave a note on the discussion page (and hope they see it)? --Tai 16:37, 3 June 2007 (UTC) ::::::We should probably encourage locally uploaded images more than externally linked images, so that we have some authority over the images should artists come along and say they no longer want their work posted here. (We have zero control over that with externally linked images.) ::::::Ideally, we'd have some system of screening images and giving warnings if non-screenshot images aren't properly credited to the artists behind them. Realistically, I think we'd need some watchdogs (like the artists themselves) to keep moderators informed when their work is being used without proper credit so that we can start the process. ::::::This could end up opening a whole new can of worms, of course, like possible false claims of art ownership in an environment where people assume totally fabricated identities. But we can deal with it on a case-by-case basis. If someone complains, we investigate. If we're satisfied the art belongs to the artist, we make sure they get credit or we remove it from use on the ER Wiki. Fair enough? --Stamp 19:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC) ::::::::I know I'm resurrecting a dead topic here, but I noticed something that isn't mentioned above with the whole making people list an artist causing them to possibly lie about the source of the art or falsely claim to be the artist thing. If a copyright lawsuit comes up and we allowed work that had no credit assigned to it to be posted then Wikia, the moderation/admin staff of this particular wiki, myself (as gallery mod), or some combination of the before mentioned could be faulted. If the person posting the image, however, makes false claims about the origin of the image then it is that person that is responsible. --User:Eupheria 10/04/07